Comments on: Should the Indians Follow Oakland’s Model?

By: Stephanie Liscio

Stephanie Liscio — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 03:15:18 +0000

I was in Kansas City a few years ago for a conference and happened to go to a luncheon with the Royals’ GM and then to a Royals game. I honestly felt bad for Royals fans, because it’s really been one “rebuilding” after the next. Although the rebuilding never stops…it just keeps going with no visible results. They were frustrated then, and that was several years ago now. I honestly don’t want to turn into that, just a never ending cycle of rebuildings that never produce anything.

By: Steve Alex

Steve Alex — Wed, 07 Nov 2012 23:43:46 +0000

If the Indians rebuild and trade all of the people being discussed, then we’ll see a very young team again for a couple of years, with bargain basement free agents filling in here and there until newly acquired prospects are ready to step in. If they try to win with the current group and improve quickly through trades, then we might see just one or two trades that will bring major league-ready young players and see what Francona can do with them. Either plan has merit. What would be bad is if the team just aimlessly drifts from one transaction to the next without any clear direction of when they are going to try to win. Shapiro promised us after the Robby Alomar trade that he would never go halfway on a rebuild like that again. I hope he remembers that promise, because acquiring Ubaldo last year and then not getting a hitter over the winter seemed rather inconsistent in terms of win now versus win later. In other words, why did we mortgage our future in the Ubaldo trade if we aren’t trying to win?

By: Stephanie Liscio

Stephanie Liscio — Wed, 07 Nov 2012 19:41:12 +0000

Can I say first of all, that I’m loving the discussion so far this offseason? Nobody ever wants to talk baseball with me after October, and it always thrills me to come on here and see such thoughtful comments! A lot of times it makes me look at things from a different perspective, which I also really love.

Also, MLB Trade Rumors had a story today about how Antonetti is fielding calls on several of these guys: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/indians-getting-calls-on-choo-masterson-perez-cabrera.html It could be an interesting offseason, although I think things may not get rolling full steam until the winter meetings.

I have to say that I’m a little less frustrated about Matt LaPorta being a bust, than some of the stuff in the Cliff Lee deal. Because to be fair, Matt LaPorta fooled the Brewers too…they took him 7th overall in the draft. Plus I think some of the warning signs were less obvious when he was mashing in the minors (or they thought his issues could be repaired). Jason Knapp frustrates me to no end, because it seems like they knew he had shoulder issues when they took him. I really think they went for quantity over quality in that one.

So here’s a question – (that may be worth a separate post) the Mets parted ways with Jason Bay today. Do you try to rescue him off the scrap heap, or avoid that one like the plague?

By: Drew

Drew — Wed, 07 Nov 2012 14:47:28 +0000

I really think that some team will overpay for Choo or Cabrera or both and that the Indians will have another hole with which to deal in 2013.

By: Keith

Keith — Tue, 06 Nov 2012 21:11:32 +0000

Great stuff. I’d read Olney’s piece too and feel the same way you do, Stephanie. Choo isn’t exactly coming off a stellar year so I feel like he wouldn’t get the return you’d really like to see. I think he’d be better dealt at the trade deadline if the Tribe is out of contention. I believe the front office has done a poor job on a variety of trades (ubaldo!!!!) but for many of the trades they’ve made, we have to remember that we only gave up about 10 weeks of a player’s services in exchange for players under control for years at little cost. The Sabathia trade happened when Cleveland was in last place, with about 11 weeks left in the season, after which Sabathia would become a free agent. It hurts to see these great players go, but we have to keep in mind that getting years of Michael Brantley plus the added payroll flexibilty is actually worth more than 11 weeks of Sabathia when the Indians were already out of the race. Even if LaPorta ended up being a bust. And let’s not forget that Shin-Soo Choo came here via a trade too. Just sayin’ – I get frustrated with the results on the field, but am actually feeling a need to defend the front office a bit.

By: Josh

Josh — Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:53:51 +0000

Don’t take my last comment as an indication i’m against trading Cabrera though. (although he is my favorite player since 2007) I think another major league club will vastly overpay for his services via trade, and it could be the single trade that rights the ship in Cleveland. I just don’t think that Francisco Lindor is going to be the answer as his replacement. Juan Diaz would get consideration after the 2013 season and maybe even during. The Indians have a plethora of good shortstop prospects in the minors right now, so I think that a Cabrera trade could pan out quite well.

My only objection is that Cabrera seems to be the only true clutch hitter they have. Maybe I’m wrong but it seems like everytime they need a hit or someone to get on base he’s able to do that. It just depends on what the orginization wants. I think the Indians can be a .500 team this year by just trading Perez and Choo and maybe 1 or 2 more minor trades of FA signings. Not every Casey Kotchman and Johnny Damon signing is going to fail. Or, if they want to go the route of total rebuild, they can lose even more fans and and not see the postseason for antoher 5 years if they can actually pull of decent trades.

By: Josh

Josh — Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:44:29 +0000

Lindor has at least 2 more seasons before he even sees the big leagues. Everyone needs to remember that he is NOT a Bryce Harper or Mike Trout, and other than Advanced plate discipline he is not elite on offense. He is a plus base runner and plus defender. I would not be surprised to see one of the better offensive shortstops like Ronny Rodriguez pass him in the orginization. I would actually reccomend that the Indians trade Lindor because of how highly ranked he is on the prospect rankings. Regardless how great his glove is, his .257 .352 .355 triple slash is not going to cut it in the major leagues. It’s sort of how they claim that Chisenhall is the 3B of the future, but he walks only like 1/100 plate appearances. I personally don’t ever see Lindor as being a core player in cleveland. On a team that’s starved of offense 90% of the time a defensive specialist is not going to survive without being at least average on offense.

By: Cadfael

Cadfael — Tue, 06 Nov 2012 18:41:57 +0000

Stephanie, I think my opinion lines up with yours fairly well. If we do trade assets, I only hope we can get some decent outfielders/pitching/first basemen in return. I do think we should hold onto Santana as long as possible. I guess my only question is, how far out is Francisco Lindor from being big league ready? That’s my main concern in an Asdrubal trade. If he’s close to ready, a core of Santana/Chisenhall/Lindor/Kipnis/Brantley and whatever assets we get isn’t the worst looking scenario in the world.

By: Steve Alex

Steve Alex — Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:57:23 +0000

So Buster is basically advocating a complete fire sale and rebuild. Why doesn’t he just say that? If you trade every player of value on your team with more than two years of service time, that’s a fire sale. I’m fine with that, but the idea of trading Santana is ridiculous and made the rest of his story unworthy of reading, let alone paying for. Even if you rebuild, you need someone to build around. As for fan backlash, I truly believe it can’t get any worse so there isn’t much downside. The season ticket base is all but gone and everyone is so angry. Your concern about the front office screwing it up is more valid. Their “more is better” philosophy of getting 3-for-1 or 4-for-1 brings quantity but not quality, and huge risk picks like Knapp was. The team got lucky getting Santana for Blake. Trying to flip him now is like a double-down in blackjack with 15, or winning on the slots and putting it all right back in the machine.