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	<title>Comments on: Now That the Shock Has Worn Off&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544</link>
	<description>A CLEVELAND INDIANS BLOG FROM THE ESPN SWEET SPOT NETWORK</description>
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		<title>By: Tom Battiato</title>
		<link>http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1071</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Battiato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 02:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1071</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All of you who are so judgmental can be thankful that your ancestors managed to get into the U.S, so that your bellies are full and your opportunities are bright. Your condemnation of others while sitting in your ivory towers are laughable.

If you had ever witnessed  the extreme poverty in many of these countries, with little or no hope to move up no matter how many hours one works hard at a job, you would understand that a man is going to do what he has to do to make a better life. That it offends the sensibilities of some distant American would be meaningless.

Most of these players simply followed the advice of the buscones and scouts which proved successful for others. To have rejected their directives would have been out of the question, and bordered on insanity.

Once a player has obtained entry under a false name, the process is self-perpetuating. There is no way to correct the situation short of retiring from the game.

It is reasonable to assume that the Dominican government only arrested these players due to pressure from the U.S. government. The Dominicans would have no reason to oppose having their citizens enter the U.S., especially to make a large salary which will find its way back to the country. 

It is even likely that the U.S. aid or other payments are earned by the Domincan government to intervene, just as the U.S. pays spiffs to Colombian immigration agents to catch drug smugglers at the airport.  

Rather than approach the whole issue on a reasonable basis by allowing the players to make a simple correction, the governments are playing politics with peoples lives in order to satisfy the desires of right wing conservatives in the U.S.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of you who are so judgmental can be thankful that your ancestors managed to get into the U.S, so that your bellies are full and your opportunities are bright. Your condemnation of others while sitting in your ivory towers are laughable.</p>
<p>If you had ever witnessed  the extreme poverty in many of these countries, with little or no hope to move up no matter how many hours one works hard at a job, you would understand that a man is going to do what he has to do to make a better life. That it offends the sensibilities of some distant American would be meaningless.</p>
<p>Most of these players simply followed the advice of the buscones and scouts which proved successful for others. To have rejected their directives would have been out of the question, and bordered on insanity.</p>
<p>Once a player has obtained entry under a false name, the process is self-perpetuating. There is no way to correct the situation short of retiring from the game.</p>
<p>It is reasonable to assume that the Dominican government only arrested these players due to pressure from the U.S. government. The Dominicans would have no reason to oppose having their citizens enter the U.S., especially to make a large salary which will find its way back to the country. </p>
<p>It is even likely that the U.S. aid or other payments are earned by the Domincan government to intervene, just as the U.S. pays spiffs to Colombian immigration agents to catch drug smugglers at the airport.  </p>
<p>Rather than approach the whole issue on a reasonable basis by allowing the players to make a simple correction, the governments are playing politics with peoples lives in order to satisfy the desires of right wing conservatives in the U.S.</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1068</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1068</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alot of people benefited from this scheme, besides Carmona. This kind of fraud could easily be stopped with the mentioned DNA tests and other methods. You wonder he kept risking his deception by returning time after time to the Dominican? I also wonder if keeping this secret has not been a cause of his erratic career performance. Talk about erratic! Carmona has been an ace and a millionaire demoted to the minor leagues in mid season. I&#039;m inclined to be softer on his punishment but he should have his current contract voided. He&#039;s worth less as an erratic 31 year old starter than an erratic 28 year old starter. That&#039;s a fact. Like the steroid issue, it is major league baseballs&#039; responsibility to clean up its messes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alot of people benefited from this scheme, besides Carmona. This kind of fraud could easily be stopped with the mentioned DNA tests and other methods. You wonder he kept risking his deception by returning time after time to the Dominican? I also wonder if keeping this secret has not been a cause of his erratic career performance. Talk about erratic! Carmona has been an ace and a millionaire demoted to the minor leagues in mid season. I&#8217;m inclined to be softer on his punishment but he should have his current contract voided. He&#8217;s worth less as an erratic 31 year old starter than an erratic 28 year old starter. That&#8217;s a fact. Like the steroid issue, it is major league baseballs&#8217; responsibility to clean up its messes.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1065</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 04:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1065</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Indians themselves have improved their standards with foreign prospects being required to take DNA tests to prove their identities prior to signing contracts.m Why MLB hasnt followed suit is beyond me. Most likely its the same reason they ignored the Steroid issue for so long, it benefitted them to let these talented prospects into the country.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Indians themselves have improved their standards with foreign prospects being required to take DNA tests to prove their identities prior to signing contracts.m Why MLB hasnt followed suit is beyond me. Most likely its the same reason they ignored the Steroid issue for so long, it benefitted them to let these talented prospects into the country.</p>
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		<title>By: John Autin</title>
		<link>http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1063</link>
		<dc:creator>John Autin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 02:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1063</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Justin, I see your point (in reply to Will) about the consequences if Carmona had come clean publicly.

But his continuing to accept Cleveland&#039;s money under false pretenses was still unethical. It&#039;s reasonable to presume that club management would have been less inclined to pick up his $7mm option for 2012 if they&#039;d known his true age.

Poverty may have been justification enough for the initial lie. And hoping to avoid a pointless punishment may have been good enough reason for not coming clean publicly. But poverty is no longer an issue for him -- he&#039;s made $15 million in MLB already, so you&#039;d hope he has a couple million saved. And there were alternatives in between confession/deportation and continuing to cheat his employer. He could have asked for a lower salary. He could have quit the game.

How many of us would have taken one of those alternatives? I don&#039;t know; but I do know that the fact that lots of people cheat on their tax returns doesn&#039;t make it ethically OK for me to do so.

Moving on ... MLB needs to move quickly in developing policy to discourage prospects from lying about their age. Playing under a false identify should be grounds for a lifetime ban from MLB and its affiliates.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin, I see your point (in reply to Will) about the consequences if Carmona had come clean publicly.</p>
<p>But his continuing to accept Cleveland&#8217;s money under false pretenses was still unethical. It&#8217;s reasonable to presume that club management would have been less inclined to pick up his $7mm option for 2012 if they&#8217;d known his true age.</p>
<p>Poverty may have been justification enough for the initial lie. And hoping to avoid a pointless punishment may have been good enough reason for not coming clean publicly. But poverty is no longer an issue for him &#8212; he&#8217;s made $15 million in MLB already, so you&#8217;d hope he has a couple million saved. And there were alternatives in between confession/deportation and continuing to cheat his employer. He could have asked for a lower salary. He could have quit the game.</p>
<p>How many of us would have taken one of those alternatives? I don&#8217;t know; but I do know that the fact that lots of people cheat on their tax returns doesn&#8217;t make it ethically OK for me to do so.</p>
<p>Moving on &#8230; MLB needs to move quickly in developing policy to discourage prospects from lying about their age. Playing under a false identify should be grounds for a lifetime ban from MLB and its affiliates.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Monachello</title>
		<link>http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1062</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Monachello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 02:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1062</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I understand that some people want to help their families, who doesn&#039;t? But this fraud and he lied. I have a hard time feeling sorry for a guy who illegally gain access into this country. This is how terrorists get in. The only terrorism Carmona/Heredia did was terrorize us Indian fans when he pitched every fifth  game. I know my example is extreme, but what example is he showing youngest in the DR? Lie like me and you will make millions? What if he had a checkered past? Would your blog be different? Some thoughts to think about.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand that some people want to help their families, who doesn&#8217;t? But this fraud and he lied. I have a hard time feeling sorry for a guy who illegally gain access into this country. This is how terrorists get in. The only terrorism Carmona/Heredia did was terrorize us Indian fans when he pitched every fifth  game. I know my example is extreme, but what example is he showing youngest in the DR? Lie like me and you will make millions? What if he had a checkered past? Would your blog be different? Some thoughts to think about.</p>
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		<title>By: diggernick</title>
		<link>http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1061</link>
		<dc:creator>diggernick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2012 22:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[maybe carmona will play better with the skeleton out of the closet]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>maybe carmona will play better with the skeleton out of the closet</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1060</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2012 20:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1060</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem with &quot;coming clean&quot; after the fact is that once you lie to get a visa you face deportation and a 20 year ban on getting a Visa to the United States. So while in Theory it sounds like a great option the fact is it would become career suicide.

And Bob its clearly explained why he did it. He did it because by being 3 years younger he was given a better shot at getting a contract and getting a shot in the minor leagues. If he was a 22 year old prospect as opposed to a 19 year old his stats are critiqued and his value determined differently. 

Its easy for us to say that we would come clean and yada yada yada but the fact is none of us grew up in that bad of a situation. None of us were facing a life of poverty or telling a lie and providing for my family and future generations. 

And dont think for one second that the DR didnt know about his falsifying documents. These baseball prodigies are like gods in that country. If they do well the entire country profits.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with &#8220;coming clean&#8221; after the fact is that once you lie to get a visa you face deportation and a 20 year ban on getting a Visa to the United States. So while in Theory it sounds like a great option the fact is it would become career suicide.</p>
<p>And Bob its clearly explained why he did it. He did it because by being 3 years younger he was given a better shot at getting a contract and getting a shot in the minor leagues. If he was a 22 year old prospect as opposed to a 19 year old his stats are critiqued and his value determined differently. </p>
<p>Its easy for us to say that we would come clean and yada yada yada but the fact is none of us grew up in that bad of a situation. None of us were facing a life of poverty or telling a lie and providing for my family and future generations. </p>
<p>And dont think for one second that the DR didnt know about his falsifying documents. These baseball prodigies are like gods in that country. If they do well the entire country profits.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1059</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2012 16:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1059</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All BS aside about how he helped his family... yada... yada....yada. He lied, deceived and perpetrated a fraud, which are felonies! So, why did he need to do it? Was he hiding a criminal record or something else?

I hope the State Department deny this jerk a visa and even if he gets one...CPB can dent him entry into the US since he previously lied and concealed material facts from a Federal Officer to enter the US.

Hasta La Vista whatever your name is!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All BS aside about how he helped his family&#8230; yada&#8230; yada&#8230;.yada. He lied, deceived and perpetrated a fraud, which are felonies! So, why did he need to do it? Was he hiding a criminal record or something else?</p>
<p>I hope the State Department deny this jerk a visa and even if he gets one&#8230;CPB can dent him entry into the US since he previously lied and concealed material facts from a Federal Officer to enter the US.</p>
<p>Hasta La Vista whatever your name is!</p>
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		<title>By: Will McIlroy</title>
		<link>http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1058</link>
		<dc:creator>Will McIlroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2012 15:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1058</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re way too soft on this. I like Heredia (passed him in the tunnel under the stadium and he was very friendly and who can forget the midge game?) but this goes well past &quot;I just wanted to take care of my family&quot;.

This is fraud and greed. If your premise is true (he just wanted a chance to compete), then he should have come clean once he established himself as a viable MLB player. Come clean and tell the team pay me for who I am/what I am, not what I misrepresented.

How many millions does his family need? He&#039;s already earned a lot of money &#039;for his family&#039;, more than enough to support everyone for several lifetimes, yet continued the lie and used it to negotiate a contract with 28 million dollars remaining. This is nothing but greed and fraud.

Also consider the collateral damage. As a direct consequence of his actions the Indians now face an unsettled rotation and gave up a promising RP prospect in Putnam to fill the void. Like you, I do not like the Slowey trade (signing an equivalent made sense, not losing Putnam) since Gomez, McAllister and Huff are available and need the chance to pitch.

Heredia robbed the Indians of money (fair market value v. misrepresented value), weakened their rotation in a year where they need everyone to contribute and lost the team a promising prospect, all for the &#039;sake of his family&#039;. Stop it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re way too soft on this. I like Heredia (passed him in the tunnel under the stadium and he was very friendly and who can forget the midge game?) but this goes well past &#8220;I just wanted to take care of my family&#8221;.</p>
<p>This is fraud and greed. If your premise is true (he just wanted a chance to compete), then he should have come clean once he established himself as a viable MLB player. Come clean and tell the team pay me for who I am/what I am, not what I misrepresented.</p>
<p>How many millions does his family need? He&#8217;s already earned a lot of money &#8216;for his family&#8217;, more than enough to support everyone for several lifetimes, yet continued the lie and used it to negotiate a contract with 28 million dollars remaining. This is nothing but greed and fraud.</p>
<p>Also consider the collateral damage. As a direct consequence of his actions the Indians now face an unsettled rotation and gave up a promising RP prospect in Putnam to fill the void. Like you, I do not like the Slowey trade (signing an equivalent made sense, not losing Putnam) since Gomez, McAllister and Huff are available and need the chance to pitch.</p>
<p>Heredia robbed the Indians of money (fair market value v. misrepresented value), weakened their rotation in a year where they need everyone to contribute and lost the team a promising prospect, all for the &#8216;sake of his family&#8217;. Stop it.</p>
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		<title>By: Roberto Soltero</title>
		<link>http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1057</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberto Soltero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itspronouncedlajaway.com/?p=1544#comment-1057</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stephanie,

Nice article.  I have to wonder why the Dominican authorities choose to take such a punitive approach.  Not that you want to look the other way and encourage this sort of deceit (and in some cases fraud), but there has to be a better solution than keeping the player from performing and earning his pay.  Perhaps the Dominican authorities could levy heavy fines against the accused while allowing him to play.  The money would still reach the island, but not benefit those who chose to take a dishonest path to earning it.

Not that the money in the government&#039;s hands would be free from the clutches or corruption, but at least the player, who likely entered into this scheme under coercion (from parents or buscones), get to play.  As you know, the productive years of a player are few, and keeping a major league talent from performing during his few productive years seems to be a punishment not in proportion to the &quot;crime&quot;.

Roberto A. Soltero
San Juan, Puerto Rico

ps  Just fyi, but the singular form of &quot;buscones&quot; should be &quot;buscón&quot;, not &quot;buscone&quot;.

R]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephanie,</p>
<p>Nice article.  I have to wonder why the Dominican authorities choose to take such a punitive approach.  Not that you want to look the other way and encourage this sort of deceit (and in some cases fraud), but there has to be a better solution than keeping the player from performing and earning his pay.  Perhaps the Dominican authorities could levy heavy fines against the accused while allowing him to play.  The money would still reach the island, but not benefit those who chose to take a dishonest path to earning it.</p>
<p>Not that the money in the government&#8217;s hands would be free from the clutches or corruption, but at least the player, who likely entered into this scheme under coercion (from parents or buscones), get to play.  As you know, the productive years of a player are few, and keeping a major league talent from performing during his few productive years seems to be a punishment not in proportion to the &#8220;crime&#8221;.</p>
<p>Roberto A. Soltero<br />
San Juan, Puerto Rico</p>
<p>ps  Just fyi, but the singular form of &#8220;buscones&#8221; should be &#8220;buscón&#8221;, not &#8220;buscone&#8221;.</p>
<p>R</p>
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